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Debates · AI training and self-improvement

As of late 2026, is meaningful recursive self-improvement in AI already underway?

8 shows · 13 speakers · published Nov 8, 2026 · updated Nov 9, 2026

The debate

Since late August, podcasts have argued over whether current AI systems already perform meaningful recursive self-improvement or whether that capability still lies in the future. On one side, Huang (Hard Fork) says AI agents already improve themselves across repeated use, and Ismail (Moonshots) says labs are already in an RSI era. On the other, Lovely (Doom Debates) and Patel (Dwarkesh Podcast) say meaningful recursive self-improvement has not yet begun, though they expect it within the next decade.

Where each side stands

AI systems are already engaging in meaningful recursive self-improvement today.

Jensen Huang (Hard Fork) · Richard Socher (Moonshots) · Steven Bartlett (The Diary Of A CEO) · Eric Weinstein (The Diary Of A CEO) · Alexander Wissner-Gross (Moonshots) · Dave Blundin (Moonshots) · David Robinson (The Ezra Klein Show) · David Sacks (All-In) · Zhengyao Jiang (Machine Learning Street Talk) · Salim Ismail (Moonshots)

Sacks (All-In) says Anthropic reported in a blog that AI systems were doing 26 percent of the tasks for building its next-generation models through recursive self-improvement. Blundin (Moonshots) says Anthropic uses an internal model to help build Mythos 3 and expects it to rapidly build later models inside the company through accelerating recursive self-improvement. Jiang (Machine Learning Street Talk) says his team has an autonomous loop that improves systems faster than human R&D and shows a bent R&D curve from recursive self-improvement. Ismail (Moonshots) says recursive self-improvement already defines an RSI era where it drives most research at Anthropic and OpenAI, citing their public quantitative statements.

15 claims, in their words
  • “I think that RSI, is fundamentally how things are done. So we use software. To design a computer, to run software, to design a computer, to run software, to design a computer.”
    unidentified speaker (diarization split) · Hard Fork · 2026-09-25 · 1:17:23 nothing cited
  • “And because it, you use it over and over again, some of it is skills, some of it is going to be a memory, we're going to improve the memory. Okay, so that next time you use it, it's even better than last. Recursive self-improvement. You could also decide that you take all of this skills, all of this memory,”
    Jensen Huang · Hard Fork · 2026-09-25 · 1:18:31 nothing cited
  • “what we're working on at Recursive is to have humans only be involved in setting up the rewards and the environment and the goals. And then allow the eye to have the entirety of the process of ideation, implementation, and validation of ideas, and have full control over that, and allow for so-called open-ended algorithms, evolutionary search algorithms that combine”
    Richard Socher · Moonshots · 2026-10-03 · 1:01:46 personal experiencewe have like forms of that going already
  • “this year, something major shifted, and that is, AI, can now code, right? And that, is a major shift, in, in the ability for it to change itself. You know, like we now are able to essentially lean into the fact that AI is code, and AI can code, right? So you have a, a loop that you can close”
    Richard Socher · Moonshots · 2026-10-03 · 1:00:55 nothing cited
  • “I think that that's already here.”
    Steven Bartlett · The Diary Of A CEO · 2026-10-12 · 51:57 nothing cited
  • “I think that that's already here. So let's agree that these agents are dangerous. Imagine that you have non-agentic AI, that you have an air gap, you've got a, a computer that can answer and, math problems.”
    Eric Weinstein · The Diary Of A CEO · 2026-10-12 · 52:05 nothing cited
  • “there was some interesting commentary, if you remember the AI 2027 scenario, that we're within 10 to 15% of where AI 2027 predicted that we'd be by November 2026. Look at model four on that chart. ... We are so deep in recursive self-improvement at this point.”
    Alexander Wissner-Gross · Moonshots · 2026-11-07 · 40:10 cites a studyMETR
  • “The good news, the silver lining is we're so deep in RSI at this point. I think with just software-only improvements, even if we're sort of subjecting ourselves to a form, the form of export control we're trying to subject China to, we can, I think at this point, just through pure software improvements, get to where we're going, probably”
    Alexander Wissner-Gross · Moonshots · 2026-11-07 · 33:57 nothing cited
  • “they're using it inside Anthropic, and it's building Mythos 3. But they're not going to release any of that. You know, it's accelerating internally. It'll build 4, 5, 6, 7 very, very quickly now inside their walls. But they're not going to release any of that, one, because they don't have the compute to release it anyway. But even if”
    Dave Blundin · Moonshots · 2026-08-29 · 17:25 nothing cited
  • “There's lots of cognitive dissonance involved in being part of this. That's what I found. And particularly as RSI gets real, and you know, you talked about we're going faster because of RSI.”
    David Robinson · The Ezra Klein Show · 2026-10-07 · 50:19 personal experience
  • “Anthropic published a very interesting blog talking about how they were using RSI, and, and 26%, they had a chart showing that 26% of their tasks That are involved in basically trying to create the next generation of models, they were already were using RSI to do that.”
    David Sacks · All-In · 2026-10-30 · 44:26 cites a number
  • “there's no way for them to maintain their lead as the number one superintelligence company without continuing to advance the frontier very rapidly and to continue to pursue recursive self-improvement.”
    David Sacks · All-In · 2026-10-30 · 45:49 nothing cited
  • “the first level is what we call the delegation. You can run recursive self-improvement loop, but it's not strictly better than human doing R&D. And, we believe that all the previous public results are sitting on this level, level zero. And, the level one is what we called net positive, where you run the self-improvement loop, and you found that”
    Zhengyao Jiang · Machine Learning Street Talk · 2026-09-26 · 10:00 personal experiencewe are currently sitting at
  • “To us, we care about the outcome of, it actually bending the curve of, recursive self-impro, like, of R&D efforts. We see this is the first evidence that the curve actually starting, get bent, for a fully autonomous system that can improve itself consistently.”
    Zhengyao Jiang · Machine Learning Street Talk · 2026-09-26 · 25:28 nothing cited
  • “I think we're already there. I think recursive self-improvement, we're already in the RSI era. Both Anthropic and OpenAI have made a number of pretty detailed and quantitative public statements to that effect. So we're already in an era when RSI is driving the vast majority of research at this point.”
    Salim Ismail · Moonshots · 2026-10-07 · 2:39:21 cites an eventAnthropic and OpenAI have made detailed and quantitative public statements

meaningful recursive self-improvement by AI has not yet begun as of now.

Garrison Lovely (Doom Debates) · Dr. Alexander Wissner-Gross (Moonshots) · Dwarkesh Patel (Dwarkesh Podcast)

Wissner-Gross (Moonshots) says recursive self-improvement has not yet arrived but will emerge within the next two years and then produce intelligence levels no one has imagined. Lovely (Doom Debates) argues that current AI gains are mostly on verifiable tasks with less generalization than expected, so recursive self-improvement is further away than many think. Patel (Dwarkesh Podcast) expects 'crazy' recursive self-improvement within ten years by default but warns that sample-inefficient weight updates in current models might prevent it.

3 claims, in their words
  • “I personally think that we're further away from that and that the things that the AIs keep getting better at, it's kind of, like, still verifiable stuff and the generalization has been less than, than people, like, expected or, or, or hoped for to, to, like, actually do the last mile of, of fully automating R&D.”
    Garrison Lovely · Doom Debates · 2026-09-29 · 33:35 personal experience
  • “RSI is the next two years. And, and really, you know, a good strategy around AI really focuses on what are the exact moves for the next two years. Because after that, I mean, we're talking about intelligence like no one's ever even imagined”
    Dr. Alexander Wissner-Gross · Moonshots · 2026-10-28 · 09:22 nothing cited
  • “by default, I don't see how you don't get some kind of crazy recursive self-improvement within the next 10 years. But the one reason why that might not happen is in terms of like weight updates, the sample efficiency of weight updates, they just seem way far behind humans”
    Dwarkesh Patel · Dwarkesh Podcast · 2026-09-11 · 46:33 nothing cited
What each side never hears

Listeners of “meaningful recursive self-improvement by AI has not yet begun as of now.” have not heard (3 arguments)

Listeners of these shows have not heard Wissner-Gross's claim that current recursive self-improvement is already so deep that software-only advances could reach AGI goals without new data centers. They also have not heard Sacks's view that Anthropic must rapidly advance the frontier and keep pursuing recursive self-improvement to maintain a lead in superintelligence. Jiang's report that his autonomous system is already bending the R&D effort curve through recursive self-improvement has likewise not been presented on these podcasts.

3 unanswered arguments, in their words
  • “there's no way for them to maintain their lead as the number one superintelligence company without continuing to advance the frontier very rapidly and to continue to pursue recursive self-improvement.”
    David Sacks · All-In · 2026-10-30 · unanswered for 1 week
  • “To us, we care about the outcome of, it actually bending the curve of, recursive self-impro, like, of R&D efforts. We see this is the first evidence that the curve actually starting, get bent, for a fully autonomous system that can improve itself consistently.”
    Zhengyao Jiang · Machine Learning Street Talk · 2026-09-26 · unanswered for 6 weeks
  • “The good news, the silver lining is we're so deep in RSI at this point. I think with just software-only improvements, even if we're sort of subjecting ourselves to a form, the form of export control we're trying to subject China to, we can, I think at this point, just through pure software improvements, get to where we're going, probably”
    Alexander Wissner-Gross · Moonshots · 2026-11-07 · this week

Listeners of “AI systems are already engaging in meaningful recursive self-improvement today.” have not heard (2 arguments)

Listeners of these shows have not heard Lovely's view that current AI mostly improves on verifiable tasks with less generalization than expected, which he thinks pushes recursive self-improvement further away. Patel's point that recursive self-improvement might fail if model weight updates stay sample-inefficient has also not been raised on these shows.

2 unanswered arguments, in their words
  • “by default, I don't see how you don't get some kind of crazy recursive self-improvement within the next 10 years. But the one reason why that might not happen is in terms of like weight updates, the sample efficiency of weight updates, they just seem way far behind humans”
    Dwarkesh Patel · Dwarkesh Podcast · 2026-09-11 · unanswered for 8 weeks
  • “I personally think that we're further away from that and that the things that the AIs keep getting better at, it's kind of, like, still verifiable stuff and the generalization has been less than, than people, like, expected or, or, or hoped for to, to, like, actually do the last mile of, of fully automating R&D.”
    Garrison Lovely · Doom Debates · 2026-09-29 · the things that the AIs keep getting better atunanswered for 5 weeks
Bottom line

The claim that recursive self-improvement already exists leans on bent R&D curves and strategic dependence on RSI that position 1's shows do not address. The claim that recursive self-improvement has not begun rests on limited generalization and sample-inefficient weight updates that position 0's shows leave unexamined.

What changed

Published because: 8 shows, 2 positions, 69 days of debate. Questions publish only when claims come from at least three shows, at least two positions are held by different people, and the debate has lasted two weeks.

Pairs are matched by content across different episodes and shows; no exchange between these speakers took place unless both quotes come from the same episode.

The prose on this page is written by a model from the quotes shown, and every sentence of it rests on quotes you can open; sentences that could not be traced to a quote were removed before publishing. Positions are placed from each speaker's own words. Evidence labels say what the speaker cited, never whether it is true.

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