As of late 2026, is meaningful recursive self-improvement in AI already underway?
Since late August, podcasts have argued over whether current AI systems already perform meaningful recursive self-improvement or whether that capability still lies in the future. On one side, Huang (Hard Fork) says AI agents already improve themselves across repeated use, and Ismail (Moonshots) says labs are already in an RSI era. On the other, Lovely (Doom Debates) and Patel (Dwarkesh Podcast) say meaningful recursive self-improvement has not yet begun, though they expect it within the next decade.
AI systems are already engaging in meaningful recursive self-improvement today.
Sacks (All-In) says Anthropic reported in a blog that AI systems were doing 26 percent of the tasks for building its next-generation models through recursive self-improvement. Blundin (Moonshots) says Anthropic uses an internal model to help build Mythos 3 and expects it to rapidly build later models inside the company through accelerating recursive self-improvement. Jiang (Machine Learning Street Talk) says his team has an autonomous loop that improves systems faster than human R&D and shows a bent R&D curve from recursive self-improvement. Ismail (Moonshots) says recursive self-improvement already defines an RSI era where it drives most research at Anthropic and OpenAI, citing their public quantitative statements.
15 claims, in their words
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“I think that RSI, is fundamentally how things are done. So we use software. To design a computer, to run software, to design a computer, to run software, to design a computer.”
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“And because it, you use it over and over again, some of it is skills, some of it is going to be a memory, we're going to improve the memory. Okay, so that next time you use it, it's even better than last. Recursive self-improvement. You could also decide that you take all of this skills, all of this memory,”
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“what we're working on at Recursive is to have humans only be involved in setting up the rewards and the environment and the goals. And then allow the eye to have the entirety of the process of ideation, implementation, and validation of ideas, and have full control over that, and allow for so-called open-ended algorithms, evolutionary search algorithms that combine”
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“this year, something major shifted, and that is, AI, can now code, right? And that, is a major shift, in, in the ability for it to change itself. You know, like we now are able to essentially lean into the fact that AI is code, and AI can code, right? So you have a, a loop that you can close”
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“I think that that's already here.”
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“I think that that's already here. So let's agree that these agents are dangerous. Imagine that you have non-agentic AI, that you have an air gap, you've got a, a computer that can answer and, math problems.”
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“there was some interesting commentary, if you remember the AI 2027 scenario, that we're within 10 to 15% of where AI 2027 predicted that we'd be by November 2026. Look at model four on that chart. ... We are so deep in recursive self-improvement at this point.”
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“The good news, the silver lining is we're so deep in RSI at this point. I think with just software-only improvements, even if we're sort of subjecting ourselves to a form, the form of export control we're trying to subject China to, we can, I think at this point, just through pure software improvements, get to where we're going, probably”
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“they're using it inside Anthropic, and it's building Mythos 3. But they're not going to release any of that. You know, it's accelerating internally. It'll build 4, 5, 6, 7 very, very quickly now inside their walls. But they're not going to release any of that, one, because they don't have the compute to release it anyway. But even if”
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“There's lots of cognitive dissonance involved in being part of this. That's what I found. And particularly as RSI gets real, and you know, you talked about we're going faster because of RSI.”
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“Anthropic published a very interesting blog talking about how they were using RSI, and, and 26%, they had a chart showing that 26% of their tasks That are involved in basically trying to create the next generation of models, they were already were using RSI to do that.”
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“there's no way for them to maintain their lead as the number one superintelligence company without continuing to advance the frontier very rapidly and to continue to pursue recursive self-improvement.”
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“the first level is what we call the delegation. You can run recursive self-improvement loop, but it's not strictly better than human doing R&D. And, we believe that all the previous public results are sitting on this level, level zero. And, the level one is what we called net positive, where you run the self-improvement loop, and you found that”
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“To us, we care about the outcome of, it actually bending the curve of, recursive self-impro, like, of R&D efforts. We see this is the first evidence that the curve actually starting, get bent, for a fully autonomous system that can improve itself consistently.”
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“I think we're already there. I think recursive self-improvement, we're already in the RSI era. Both Anthropic and OpenAI have made a number of pretty detailed and quantitative public statements to that effect. So we're already in an era when RSI is driving the vast majority of research at this point.”
meaningful recursive self-improvement by AI has not yet begun as of now.
Wissner-Gross (Moonshots) says recursive self-improvement has not yet arrived but will emerge within the next two years and then produce intelligence levels no one has imagined. Lovely (Doom Debates) argues that current AI gains are mostly on verifiable tasks with less generalization than expected, so recursive self-improvement is further away than many think. Patel (Dwarkesh Podcast) expects 'crazy' recursive self-improvement within ten years by default but warns that sample-inefficient weight updates in current models might prevent it.
3 claims, in their words
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“I personally think that we're further away from that and that the things that the AIs keep getting better at, it's kind of, like, still verifiable stuff and the generalization has been less than, than people, like, expected or, or, or hoped for to, to, like, actually do the last mile of, of fully automating R&D.”
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“RSI is the next two years. And, and really, you know, a good strategy around AI really focuses on what are the exact moves for the next two years. Because after that, I mean, we're talking about intelligence like no one's ever even imagined”
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“by default, I don't see how you don't get some kind of crazy recursive self-improvement within the next 10 years. But the one reason why that might not happen is in terms of like weight updates, the sample efficiency of weight updates, they just seem way far behind humans”
Listeners of “meaningful recursive self-improvement by AI has not yet begun as of now.” have not heard
Listeners of these shows have not heard Wissner-Gross's claim that current recursive self-improvement is already so deep that software-only advances could reach AGI goals without new data centers. They also have not heard Sacks's view that Anthropic must rapidly advance the frontier and keep pursuing recursive self-improvement to maintain a lead in superintelligence. Jiang's report that his autonomous system is already bending the R&D effort curve through recursive self-improvement has likewise not been presented on these podcasts.
3 unanswered arguments, in their words
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“there's no way for them to maintain their lead as the number one superintelligence company without continuing to advance the frontier very rapidly and to continue to pursue recursive self-improvement.”
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“To us, we care about the outcome of, it actually bending the curve of, recursive self-impro, like, of R&D efforts. We see this is the first evidence that the curve actually starting, get bent, for a fully autonomous system that can improve itself consistently.”
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“The good news, the silver lining is we're so deep in RSI at this point. I think with just software-only improvements, even if we're sort of subjecting ourselves to a form, the form of export control we're trying to subject China to, we can, I think at this point, just through pure software improvements, get to where we're going, probably”
Listeners of “AI systems are already engaging in meaningful recursive self-improvement today.” have not heard
Listeners of these shows have not heard Lovely's view that current AI mostly improves on verifiable tasks with less generalization than expected, which he thinks pushes recursive self-improvement further away. Patel's point that recursive self-improvement might fail if model weight updates stay sample-inefficient has also not been raised on these shows.
2 unanswered arguments, in their words
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“by default, I don't see how you don't get some kind of crazy recursive self-improvement within the next 10 years. But the one reason why that might not happen is in terms of like weight updates, the sample efficiency of weight updates, they just seem way far behind humans”
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“I personally think that we're further away from that and that the things that the AIs keep getting better at, it's kind of, like, still verifiable stuff and the generalization has been less than, than people, like, expected or, or, or hoped for to, to, like, actually do the last mile of, of fully automating R&D.”
The claim that recursive self-improvement already exists leans on bent R&D curves and strategic dependence on RSI that position 1's shows do not address. The claim that recursive self-improvement has not begun rests on limited generalization and sample-inefficient weight updates that position 0's shows leave unexamined.
- Nov 8, 2026 Published: cleared the gate.
- Nov 8, 2026 Dwarkesh Patel moved from “Recursive self-improvement will be a major driver of AI progress within the next decade.” to “meaningful recursive self-improvement by AI has not yet begun as of now.”.
- Nov 8, 2026 Dr. Alexander Wissner-Gross moved from “Recursive self-improvement will be a major driver of AI progress within the next decade.” to “meaningful recursive self-improvement by AI has not yet begun as of now.”.
- Nov 8, 2026 4 new claims (Hard Fork, Moonshots).
- Nov 5, 2026 4 new claims (Dwarkesh Podcast, Moonshots).
- Nov 4, 2026 7 new claims (All-In, The Ezra Klein Show, Moonshots).
- Nov 1, 2026 28 new claims (All-In, The Ezra Klein Show, Hard Fork, Dwarkesh Podcast, Doom Debates, Machine Learning Street Talk, Moonshots, 80,000 Hours Podcast, The Diary Of A CEO).
Published because: 8 shows, 2 positions, 69 days of debate. Questions publish only when claims come from at least three shows, at least two positions are held by different people, and the debate has lasted two weeks.
Pairs are matched by content across different episodes and shows; no exchange between these speakers took place unless both quotes come from the same episode.
The prose on this page is written by a model from the quotes shown, and every sentence of it rests on quotes you can open; sentences that could not be traced to a quote were removed before publishing. Positions are placed from each speaker's own words. Evidence labels say what the speaker cited, never whether it is true.
12 episodes behind this page
- 2026-11-07Moonshots — The Great Collision Between Politics and AI | #309
- 2026-10-30All-In — Anthropic S-1 Shocker, Greatest Business Ever? Google's $500B Wipeout, Midterm Predictions
- 2026-10-28Moonshots — Anthropic’s $2T IPO, Elon Predicts Neocloud Death, and China’s Kimi Catches Up | #306
- 2026-10-12The Diary Of A CEO — Eric Weinstein: The Secret Alien Programs Nobody Is Talking About
- 2026-10-07The Ezra Klein Show — ‘This Is Nuts.’ An OpenAI Insider Explains Why He Quit.
- 2026-10-07Moonshots — Why Altman Says "Accept Some Bad Things Happening" and What It Means for AI Safety | MOONSHOTS #301
- 2026-10-03Moonshots — Recursive's $670M Bet on Self-Improving AI, Sonnet 5.5 Hits 70%, Elon Co-Leads Pentagon Push | EP #299
- 2026-09-29Doom Debates — Eliezer Yudkowsky Tried to “Coup the World”?! — Garrison Lovely, Author of OBSOLETE
- 2026-09-26Machine Learning Street Talk — When AI Research Starts Moving Faster Than Human Research - Zhengyao Jiang
- 2026-09-25Hard Fork — The Ezra Klein Show: Jensen Huang Thinks A.I. Alarmism Has Gone Too Far
- 2026-09-11Dwarkesh Podcast — AI researchers debate how close we are to recursive self-improvement
- 2026-08-29Moonshots — OpenAI Pauses Frontier Training, Elon's 100X Prediction Lands, Robot Beats Usain Bolt with Emad Mostaque | EP#282
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